Expectations: Ultima Online Fans

I was talking with WtF Dragon about what I consider a major issue regarding the Shroud of the Avatar funding campaign and I believe it is important to share with all readers what our debate was about.

We already know that Ultima Online had way more players than all Ultima games together had. The problem is that the Ultima Online fan base is waiting for a second UO since the UO2 project received a no-go from EA in 2001. RPG means MMO for UO fans. There is no such thing as offline RPG for players that were 15 years old when they started playing Ultima Online. Here at Ultima Codex the majority of fans are Ultima fans and we can’t wait to play Richard’s new game – online or offline.

Ultima fans are more experienced players, are older players and therefore more open to whatever Richard is up to. We just want that taste of what used to be an ongoing RPG experience. Ultima Online players were left in the shadows over the past years, because one may say that we have games out there that offer what UO2 should have been, but none of them really is UO2. Well, that works for Ultima fans too. We were all left in the shadows.

The “major issue” is actually a simple one. WtF Dragon is preparing a FAQ section to clarify some doubts about what SotA is going to be, but what is Portalarium doing about that? My main concern is that the UO fan base will feel frustraded about the first episode of SotA and will shout to the world that they were cheated by Richard Garriot. Don’t get mad at me, I am just trying to imagine a year from now and I must admit that I am afraid. Public opinion is a b*tch and success is a must if we want SotA to have the five episodes that were promised. After all, all I am saying is: let the UO fan base know that it may take a little longer than just one episode for them to get the taste of what they are waiting for.

Share your thoughts! This is my first post in english, so it would be nice to know if I was able to send the message 🙂

12 Responses to "Expectations: Ultima Online Fans"

Sergorn says:

March 12, 2013 at 12:59 pm

I kind of understand the concern…

But they’ve repetedly stated since the initial annoucement than SOTA is not a MMO. Based on this, even if it clearly takes cues from UO… I’d argue if you expect a UO2 from this, these are flawed expectations but they are clearly stating that this is not what they’re selling.
damoclesxv says:

March 12, 2013 at 1:05 pm

Hi!!!!

Yeah, I have been reading all posts about SotA, but still… my point is: they are not saying that they will shipp “UO2”, but that is what UO fans expect. We are hardcore fans, what about a regular fan? Does this person know for sure that SotA is not the new UO? At wikipedia it is written that RG new game would be UO2… with Ultima Codex FAQ this problem will be solved, partially, but I believe that Portalarium should have its own FAQ!
damoclesxv says:

March 12, 2013 at 1:16 pm

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0

“Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game. We will be describing this in more detail in our upcoming community blogs.”

UO fans are feeling lost. That’s part of the thrill, I guess. We don’t know yet how the game is going to work and we are assuming that it is going to be innovative. MMO, not MMO, multiplayer, online, offline…
LoneStranger says:

March 12, 2013 at 2:02 pm

If UO fans think that it’s an MMO, they aren’t paying close enough attention. If they are mad they backed a non-MMO, then they needed to have read more before plunking down money. It’s clear SotA isn’t the answer if they want another MMO, but that doesn’t mean it can’t entertain them.
Anarch Cassius says:

March 12, 2013 at 2:22 pm

Frankly I thought UO2 looked like garbage and cheered when it was cancelled since that meant UO would actually keep receiving support. If the reboot the game it’ll take 10 years before they build up the content again. Now UXO looked cool and I’m sad that one got cancelled, but that’s kinda the point, I’m not looking for a sequel to UO, I’m looking for a good game.

Ultima Online let me down in a lot of ways and I think the M that stands for “massively” is part of that. The game become less about roleplaying and logic and more about regulated artificial constraints and systems. The game is too crowded, too inflated and gone too far down the Diablo-like road of modern MMOs where realism and creativity take a back seat to a heavily structured sport-like environment. Trying to use intelligent tactics can get you labelled a “griefer” but murderers can enter towns if they don’t bother anyone! They even split the darn game world to appease as many people as possible.

To me the MMO concept seems to have gone from an attempt at persistant worlds to nothing more than an online-only Diablo-clone where every single player gets tasked with killing the same big bosses that every player before them was. There’s nothing dynamic enough to make the persistence worthwhile in most cases. It really feels like most of these games are single player games that support multiplayer but the developers want to charge a subscription fee.

I think Neverwinter Nights had the right idea. Make a single player game that supports modules and you can also play co-op, or to use run an episodic campaign or use to run a persistent world. From what I’ve heard it sounds like the mutliplayer in SotA maybe similar so I am hopeful.

I no longer play MMORPGs for the same reason I no longer pay attention to Yahoo comments, anything interesting is utterly drowned out in a sea of low-quality garbage. MORPGS on the other hand I think are the way to go. Build an engine, let the players run the persistent worlds for smaller more manageable communities.
damoclesxv says:

March 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm

Anarch Cassius, you said it all. Cheers!
Ultima Fan says:

March 12, 2013 at 4:09 pm

I was a Charter Edition UO subscriber and played for the first year it was around. I was an Ultima fan decades before that.

SOTA doesn’t appeal to either fan in me. I think it looks like a pretty big depature from the deep, meaningful, worlds he created in Ultima 4-7. It actually would appeal MORE to the UO fan in me than the Ultima fan. It seems to be a game with a lot of MMO mechanics, however I see nothing that would lead me to believe that both online & offline styles of play won’t suffer for the attempt to appease both.
ZephaniahGrey says:

March 12, 2013 at 5:43 pm

I’ve actually been frustrated for Garriott in some of the interviews I’ve seen him doing. He basically lays out exactly what he envisions (such as a partyless adhoc friends system) and then the interviewer will ask about parties in the very next sentence, like they just can’t break their head out of the MMO staples to understand what he’s trying to say. I think that’s what a lot of people are having trouble with. To a lot of people, MMOs have characteristics A, B, and C, and RPGs have characteristics X, Y, and Z. When a game is presented to them with characteristics A, X, Z, and F, they have no idea how to classify it, and as such become anywhere from confused to angry. This is going to ultimately hurt SotA I think, but I also think it’s a good thing that it’s being done. So many games are being produced to adhere to the recognized formula that no one ventures out from it in fear of losing money. As much as I want to see SotA succeed, I want to see this status quo challenged more.

It’s actually frustrating to see people basically DEMANDING that a game be made a certain way to fit into their preconceived notions of whichever genre they want to fit it into. Before the internet (when Garriott and a lot of us old timers got our start) People made the games THEY wanted to play, and we got a lot of amazing experiences out of it. In fact that’s how the games like the Ultima series and UO GOT MADE! If Garriott had held to the “standard” way of making games, the games we remember so fondly would have never been made at all.

With the success of games like Minecraft and others being made with this philosophy stated, I think it’s been proven to still be a valid way of making games. Yes some will still flop, but we’ll see progress in places other than graphics again. We don’t need 1000 more samey shooters and fantasy RPGs.

Ultimately, if success is to be attained, I think Garriott may have to dial back on his multiplayer vision and just offer 2 experiences. A player saved character version where cheating is possible, but without some online features like home ownership, and a Portalarium regulated character version with full features. That stated, Garriott should stay as close to his vision as he can. He’s a proven game designer, especially when left to his own devices. (I actually really liked Tabula Rasa even if it never found it’s market.) Pushing boundaries and going against expectations is the only way to advance in anything. All other paths lead to stagnation. Besides, most people don’t really know what they want anyway. They’ll hold to the familiar, even as it drags them down.

Also, I have to agree with Anarch Cassius on multiplayer. Even UO’s strongest success was when it was pulled out of centralized servers, and run with small, tighter communities. Once UO hit big with the “Diablo-ites” as we called them then, the magic left, but I found it quickly again when I joined a private shard.
UltimaFan says:

March 12, 2013 at 8:04 pm

This opinion piece was a bit offensive because the author thinks he speaks for all Ultima fans and readers. The author is also obviously prejudiced against younger people as is evident in his stereotyping.

I speak as a fan of classic single player Ultimas when I say Shroud of the Avatar does not even interest me. I feel Garriot is way out of touch with Ultima fans and even further out of touch with gaming in general.

It is unfortunate and very disappointing because I would LOVE to see the natural evolution of or a spiritual successor to the Ultima series. However, what Richard is talking about creating is a pale shadow of his past works.

I’d expect to see something like Shroud of the Avatar from an amateur team of fans, not from Richard Garriot himself.
DamoclesXV says:

March 12, 2013 at 8:11 pm

It was my first post, but I will consider your comment when giving my personal opinion again! About SotA being made by fans and not by Richard, I don’t know. What would you like RG to do?
UltimaFan says:

March 13, 2013 at 8:17 am

Thanks DamoclesXV for taking criticism and handling it with grace as well as respecting a difference of opinion.

I would simply like to see something that lives up to the legacy of Ultima.

I would have liked to have seen less of an emphasis on tech and game mechanics this early on and more of an emphasis on story development, characters, world building, and concept art. I feel if RG truly had a compelling world designed that he would be sharing more about it. Instead, what we see is very generic and lacking in any real detail.

And as far as the tech and game mechanics goes, neither of those seem up to par.

RG is evoking a negative reaction in my mind because I do not believe in his current vision as he has laid it out and he has not sparked my imagination.

RG needs to make us believe in his vision. So far, in my opinion, he is missing the mark.

I think part of the reason for this is that RG is out of touch with Ultima fans and with gaming in general. Hopefully, continued interaction with us will change this.

I truly want him to succeed and to make something that lives up to the legacy because I don’t know if anyone else can or will do it. I’m backing him on Shroud of the Avatar and it’s not because I want the game he is describing. It’s because I want to keep the spirit of Ultima alive and I still have hope that a spiritual successor can be made. I just don’t believe this is it.
1. DamoclesXV says:
  
  March 13, 2013 at 8:44 am
  
  I have to say that what I feel is that you are trying to get back to table top RPGs. My opinion? Let’s do it. It is a shame that table top RPGs are not played anymore with the same emphasis that they used to be played.
  
  But there is one thing that you should know: that is RG goal. To bring back those old feelings we use to have when playing table top RPG. The socia features of his new game are the key to bring the past back while merging it with the future.
  
  Did you get it? That’s what I feel… it may be romantic, but I want those days back. Unfortunatly, past doesn’t repeat itself. We need a revolution and a revolution may be a new way of playing an old game!

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